How to Live Forever with Dr. Aubrey de Grey

Boomer Anderson 0:06
Welcome to decoding superhuman, this show is a deep dive into obsessions with performance and how to improve the human experience. Twice a week, I explore the latest science, technology and tactics with experts in various fields of human optimization. I’m your host, Boomer Anderson. Enjoy the journey.

So when you sit down with one of the leading figureheads in the field of aging, what do you ask them? I recently had the chance to catch up with Dr. Aubrey de Grey at the health optimization summit in London. If you’re unfamiliar with Dr. de Grey, let me catch you up real quick. Dr. Grey is an author biomedical gerontologist and the Chief Science Officer of The sens Research Foundation. I was grateful for the time he gave me and we had a very quick conversation around many different areas. We talked about already Seven Pillars of aging, the research that he’s currently doing, what he thinks about things like biological age, and those calculations, but also the impact of growth hormone on biological age. And finally, I round out by asking more of a personal question, how does one go from being a computer scientist to a gerontologist? You can find the show notes for this one at decoding superhuman comm slash Aubrey, enjoy my episode with the magnificent, Aubrey de Grey.

Dr. de Gray, Thank you for taking the time,

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 1:55
My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Boomer Anderson 1:57
So we’re here at the health optimization summit in London, you just gave this fantastic talk. And I have to ask the question, Where are we in the battle against aging?

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 2:09
Well, of course, when you’re in the middle of a long process, it’s always quite hard to see where the end is going to be. But what I think I can say more concretely is that we are moving much faster than we were even a few years ago. The areas of aging that I view as the most difficult ones, the technically hardest ones, even though and now moving forward very, very, very, respectively. And of course, a large part of the reason for that is that the private sector has started to get involved with the creation of very large numbers of startup companies working on all aspects of damage repair, and of course, funded by every kind of funder, you can imagine from individual angel investors through to VC companies. It’s you know, it’s it’s, it’s very exciting, but I never want to be overly confident, you know, I’m still when people ask me for time frames for when we’re really going to reach longevity escape velocity, when we’re going to essentially have aging and complete medical control. You know, I still give an answer in terms of probabilities. So I think we have a 5050 chance of getting the within 17 years from now. That’s my current number. It was 25 years

Boomer Anderson 3:25
I have to ask why. Why 17 years?

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 3:28
Yeah, well, you know, it’s really just a case of aggregating a lot of different uncertainties in my mind. So I look at all of the various types of damage and the stage that we’re at in developing ways to repair those types of damage. You know, how long is it going to be before we get to clinical trials? How long is it going to be that those clinical trials take before they succeed? You know, again, all of this is estimates right? And then, of course, the really big thing that comes at the end is combining these three Giving the multiple different therapies to the same people at the same time, which again, is another whole clinical process. So yeah, adding all of that up that seven times the number I got right now.

Boomer Anderson 4:10
So let’s, let’s go a little bit into, I guess, the classifying aging aspects or the different elements of aging. You’ve boiled it down to seven. Now we’ve seen nine, we’ve seen different numbers from other people. Do you mind just walking through just quickly those seven aspects?

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 4:29
Sure. Yeah. And actually, first of all, before I do that, let me explain the reason why different people come with come up with different it’s not that they think that things are some people think that something is important and someone else doesn’t think it’s important, but sometimes it actually some people leave things out. Really, it’s just a case of the motivation. So my classification is driven by the need to pair up each type of damage where the corresponding generic therapy One of my category there is loss of cells. And that is created by stem cell therapy where you put cells in that will divide and replace the cells that the body is not replacing and things like that. But yeah, so the seven categories that I have, first of all, there are three that have to do with how many cells we have a particular type. So I just mentioned stem cells, you need those because some cells, they die, and they’re not automatically replaced by cell division for the number of cells goes down, down, and eventually you don’t have enough for the affected tissues do its job. Then the other two types of cell number problem are the opposite, namely, having too many cells of a bad type. And one way you can have that if if the cells are dividing when they’re not supposed to have got so forth, that’s more or less the definition of cancer. And the other way their cells are not dying when they are supposed to. So the big, very high profile subset of that kind of group called senescent cells, which have been in the news, a lot over the Few years because people have developed drugs that can selectively kill their self. And then the other four types of damage are not at the level of cell number, but rather a level of molecular changes. So two of them are to do with waste products, just waste products that are accumulating because the body does not have the ability to break them down or to excrete them. And I have to calibrate because I distinguish waste products that accumulate inside cells, as opposed to outside. So and the reason for that, again, if it’s driven by the corresponding therapy stuff that’s outside itself, turns out that all you need to do is get inside the cell and taste but it’s real. It’s intrinsically not very difficult to break down. It’s just it’s in the wrong place. So the approach that seems to be working for that is an immunotherapy approach. Then, for stuff that inside cells and it’s accumulating anyway, because it’s intrinsically really hard to break down. Our approach has been to identify our species, especially bacteria that are able to break down these substances and introduced the relevant genes from the bacteria into human cells, and that’s worked out quite nicely

Boomer Anderson 7:10
is that the advanced glycation end products.

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 7:13
That’s another one. So um, so those are just waste products of us location. And products are important when they form cross-links eco eco bonds between molecules that have a purpose and that we don’t want to break down. And that again, happens outside the cell, especially in the lattice of proteins called the extracellular matrix. The reason it happens there is because the external matrix has very low if any turnover for the proteins are laid down once and they just sit there forever. And that means that they can gradually accumulate these molecular changes. Yeah, so we need to break those links. Because what the links do if they accumulate is they stephin tissue they cause the tissue to lose its electricity, and that’s a big contributor to hypertension in the fall as well as more cosmetic things like wrinkles. So I’ve always done actually, the only other type of damage I haven’t yet listed is accumulation of mutations in the mitochondrial DNA. So the mitochondria are these very important parts of the cell that do the chemistry of breathing. They combine oxygen with nutrients in order to extract energy from those nutrients. And mitochondria have their own DNA, it’s a very bad place for DNA to be because there’s lots of toxic molecules, free radicals that are nearby. And so we’re putting backup copies of that DNA into the nucleus into the regular chromosomes. We have to modify the DNA so that it still works even though it’s in the wrong place. And we’ve more or less tractor do that.

Boomer Anderson 8:38
Quick, just going back to advanced glycation end products, because you may get a paper released in May, I believe, are around that and correct me if I’m wrong here. But is there anything that we can do in terms of lifestyle modifications around these things because you see, events, vacation and products and things like olive oil, butter, etc.

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 8:59
So, AGEs in food, some people have suggested that they may actually have a contract contribution. But actually, I think the evidence is pretty weak on essentially these are cross links between proteins. And of course, proteins get broken down in the gut before they get before the amino acids get absorbed. And so, you know, these, these links are not going to become structural when they get into the body, even if they get in at all. However, there are certainly lifestyle and diet three things that one can do to minimize the accumulation of age even the matrix because edges are formed by the chemical reaction of proteins with sugar and of course, control of how much sugar you have in the circulation is very much a lifestyle thing you know, it has to do with insulin resistance has to do with its to do with how much sugar you Have and Have, you know how well you metabolize it.

Boomer Anderson 10:04
So going back to this broader themes around lifestyle modifications, and I know you mentioned in your talk that you do a lot on the biotechnology side, are there lifestyle factors or which lifestyle factors do you see contribute the most to aging. So

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 10:23
really, you know, the one you’ve just mentioned, the contribution of sugar intake, and sugar control to, to advance glycation end product accumulation. That is the only really big one. Most lifestyle and diet free things have only really a very small contribution to the rate at which we accumulate different types of damage. Of course, you can have a really bad diet that shortens your life because it’s shorter of micronutrients, for example. So it’s very important certainly to have a reasonably balanced varied diet. But beyond that, You know, basically just doing what your mother told you to and not, you know, not getting seriously overweight and not smoking. That’s pretty much it. There’s other stuff that we can do on top of that gives really only a very modest increase, if any, in how long we can stay healthy and therefore how long we can live. And on top of that, of course, we have to remember that each individual is different. So that there’s no I mean, it’s Dave Asprey with this morning in response to one of the questions. There’s no one size fits all for, for diet and lifestyle.

Boomer Anderson 11:30
In terms of just one of the things you didn’t mention, I’m curious about your thoughts of sleep and sleep deprivation, the contribution to that to aging.

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 11:39
Yeah, it’s important, I mean, certainly, getting an insufficient amount of sleep is bad for the body and all manner of different ways. Really, you know, psychologically, so yes, it can make a contribution. But again, you know, how much sleep is enough it varies from one person to the next.

Boomer Anderson 11:58
Now, looking at And we’re going to jump around here a little bit, guys, but nature recently there is a paper that came out around human growth hormone, Metformin, dapa. Love your opinions on that in terms of how they use Horvath clock as a measurement. So first, I would like your opinion on biological age measures in general and how what you think about those and then secondly, about the study.

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 12:23
So biological age measured from general clocks and stuff. This has been a big deal lately, especially because Steve Horvath and number of other groups developed a really good way to to define one, one, they started out being simply a way to correlate the epigenetic state of the other cell with one’s chronological age. But you know, that in and of itself is no use at all costs, because we’ve already got birth certificates, right. The way that Steve likes to say it is the norm Is the signal in other words, the deviation from that correlation is what’s interesting. And what you can actually get used as a measure of the efficacy of an anti aging therapy, for example. So yes, I certainly believe that these these clocks are very, very important and they won’t ever do the whole job I think it’s going to continue to be very important to us physiological measures of biological age as well you know, like the kind of things that have been around for a while where they measure like 150 different things in your blood and and so, you know, this is all the best clocks are going to be ones that highly competent and combine all of the things so that but yeah, so that’s very important in progress is continuing at a rapid rate to make to improve the accuracy of these clocks.

Boomer Anderson 13:49
So right now with the Horvath clock be the best of breed or is there some other one that you liked,

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 13:55
even have asked I mean, these are all moving target. So there’s obviously a reflection here. improving his own clock all the time. And there are a number of other researchers doing the same thing. It’s a very, very vibrant field you can’t really say which is best. Okay? Um Alright, so this particular study Yeah, exactly didn’t come out in nature aging cell, which is the nature job. So yeah, just in case your audience gets confused. Yeah. So it was led by a guy named Greg Fei, who has been fascinated by thymic shrinkage athletic activity for a very long time. He’s actually better known in the longevity world for his work in cryo biology. He’s a very, very well leading car biologist. But this is something he’s been doing on the side. And eventually he was able to get the get this clinical trial together. It was a small trial only nine people and no control on only open label. But, yes, they had come to the conclusion based on self experimentation many years ago, that human growth online had the potential to allow the finalists to regrow and He refined that idea to incorporate THC and Metformin, because of evidence that human growth on one iPhone may accelerate diabetic complications in the elderly. So he wanted to counteract that. And yeah, so we gave these nine people this this stuff. And as you say, the trial seems to have been rather successful, both in terms of the actual growth, regrowth of the famous Justin to have happened. And there was also, you know, demonstration of functional efficacy in this in terms of, you know, employee population of an AFL, which is what the finest makes. And on top of all that, as you say, there was a reversal of the biological age as measured by Spock. Now, I don’t want to read too much into this because of course, it depends what cell type you look at, you know, some of the cells that were being looked at may have had that clock somehow, you know, refat by virtue of changes to the actual cell types, You know, there’s a lot more detail that could could be done in a bigger failure, better funded study, obviously. But as a starting point, to, you know, to motivate the pursuit of further work in this area, I really think the 30 were very valuable.

Boomer Anderson 16:17
Perhaps taking a step back, it just brought her aging questions in general, you know, why is not why do we have aging, but why hasn’t evolution allowed us to delay aging? You don’t have time for that 45 minute jog. Frankly, who jogs anymore? You need something fast, efficient, and leaves you wanting more. My favorite tool for this? And I love it is the Carol. She is a life changing bike that provides you all the endurance you need into 22nd burse. Yes, you heard that correct. That’s 40 seconds of Max effort including the one up and cooldowns you get a kick ass workout in eight minutes and 40 seconds. How the Carroll’s the resistance bike powered by artificial intelligence, which personalizes and optimizes the resistance, so you hit your maximum intensity levels and maximize glycogen depletion every single time. The proof is really in the pudding. Carol’s effectiveness was independently verified by the American Council on Exercise. I gave the Carroll bike spin at health optimization summit in London this year, and she kicked my ass so much that had to get one. Check out Carol Carol fit ai.com that’s CARL fit ai.com if you have limited time and want to kick ass workout, which basically everyone that listens to this show does use the code decoding 150 for $150 discount Head over to Carol fit AI com to secure years or

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 18:07
so this is a well understood thing it will first really described by British immunologist In fact, and Peter medawar. Back in the 1950s. And now there is pretty much universal agreement on this among gerontologist, essentially, it’s not that evolution wants us to age, it’s that evolution doesn’t not want us to age badly enough. Evolution doesn’t care. One of my colleagues and hayflick described it very well. He said that aging is the consequence of evolutionary neglect, rather than evolutionary intent. So what it all adds up to is that the accumulation of damage in the body which is what aging is, happens as a result of gaps in our arsenal of machinery to repair damage as it comes into existence. So species that live longer Just have fewer gaps, smaller gaps, they have a more comprehensive automatic built in Damage Repair arsenal. So I think in order to have a more comprehensive Damage Repair us when you need more machinery, yeah, right. And that means more genes. And that means more opportunity for mutations to come along and activate those fields from one generation to the next. So it’s harder work to you know, you need more selective pressure has been, and that selective pressure comes from what’s called extrinsic mortality. In other words, causes of death that did not have to do with how long ago one was born. So species that are lower down the food chain, a high rate of mortality from predation, they also tend to have a more rapid aging because there’s no point in having more machinery, there’s no selective pressure to maintain that. And conversely, in the other direction, if you’re not being eaten very much, then you’re likely to evolve machinery to allow you to live longer, because then you’re going have more time to have more offspring.

Boomer Anderson 20:03
One of the things I found fascinating about your presentation yet this slide where you had, I believe it was four components or four columns. And then you said in column three there was Alzheimers cancer and cardiovascular disease were components of aging. Do you mind just explaining that a little bit? Because if you look at if you look at leading causes of death, you have basically most of them right there,

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 20:28
right? I mean, what is a cause of death? The thing is that it’s terminology thing, but it’s a really important terminology thing, because it can be misleading if you get it wrong. These causes of death cancers, you know, Alzheimer’s, people call those things diseases. But what does that mean? That means that you have the connotation that we can cure that which we can’t because they’re part of aging, and what I mean, we’re saying they’re part of aging simply that they don’t affect young people. They affect older people. I mean, how can something be a health problem later in life, but not early in life, it has to be part of aging. It has to be the later stages of something that has been accumulating throughout life, but was initially harmless because it was looking there wasn’t enough of it. So you know, that’s the definition of aging in the first place.

Boomer Anderson 21:19
Let’s go long. I don’t want to use the term longevity based on what we just discussed it. I saw you present, but looking at aging, as more of just a question, hypothetically, you’re talking additional therapies is aging going to be a rich person’s agenda.

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 21:41
People are often very worried about the idea that the therapies when they come along, they’re gonna be really expensive and only wealthy people are going to be able to access them. But we don’t have to worry about that at all. Today, of course, we do have the guy that problem that the high tech, you know, really expensive therapy for the elderly. You know, they They are expensive. And even in countries with socialized medicine, they are limited by ability to pay. But the reason that society allows that to happen is because those therapies basically don’t work. They you know, they say, if you’re lucky, they’ll postpone the health problem by a little bit and maybe extend the time that you live in a poor state of health before you die. You know, this is not really particularly attractive. And economically, it’s it from the point of view the government, it is my down the drain, you know, the people who are getting these therapies don’t work because they’re sick. And so you know, it’s just money being spent with no real economic gain. But we’re in a completely different situation. If we look at therapies that do work, because there were keeping people who are born a long time ago, able bodied and able to continue to contribute wealth to society. And also of course, we’re not having to spend the money on the people to keep them alive in a fit in a poor state of health, you know, Prevention is always better than care. Plus, you know, other things, the kids are going to be more productive because they’re not having to look after their sick parents. So economically, the benefits will be absolutely astronomical. And that will mean that whatever type of government it’s involved, whether it’s, you know, country that doesn’t like taxation like the US whether or not it’s a democracy, you know, China, China’s the same. All these countries will be economically benefiting from front loading the investment to ensure that everybody who is old enough to need the therapies can actually access them irrespective of ability to pay country that doesn’t do that will go back up.

Boomer Anderson 23:44
What’s your focus for the next six months to a year? What if you’re looking at these seven pillars, and all of them need to eventually integrate into each other? What is your key next focus?

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 23:57
We don’t really have that kind of way of thinking. of how we proceed, we understand that all of these types of damage, equally important in the sense that each one of them can kill us more or less on schedule, right. However, while we fix all the others, therefore, we just turn our priorities based on how much work other people are doing in these areas. So it’s to make sure that nothing gets left behind, and that the ones that are furthest behind catch up. But beyond that, you know, we don’t think in short time frames like six months, we just, you know, we we pound away for as long as it takes to get therapist to get research areas to a point that we can spend the most of the startup company or other companies come along doing the same thing.

Boomer Anderson 24:44
One question before I transition to the final six. Based on my reading of your bio, you started in computer science. That’s right. How did How does one go from computer science to gerontology?

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 24:56
There’s no one answer to that. But What happened was, yeah, I was a perfectly self respecting computer scientist and working on artificial intelligence research. And then I met and married a biologist. She was a lot older than me. She was already a full professor in the US in San Diego. She was actually in England on sabbatical. And so, anyway, over the next couple of years, I kind of accidentally learned a lot of biology over the dinner table, just by you know, asking her what she did today.

But then gradually began to dawn on me that, that we were never talking about aging. And I side asking questions that turned out she wasn’t interested in aging. It wasn’t very important. And it turned out other biologists that I would meeting for the same, you know, I would say like, you know, aging is about aging, you know, what are you interested in? They would say, Well, you know, it’s just decay, isn’t it? You know, what, what fundamental truths of the university you’re going to find out by studying decay? And I would say, Well, sure, I understand that but I mean, it’s bad. Fear. And they would say, Well, you know, that’s not my problem. And I would say, it kind of is. So eventually, I got concerned with this, I’m sorry, Well, okay, nobody wasn’t on there. So I better switch fails. Because the problem I was working in artificial intelligence also for humanitarian reasons, right. So, you know, work is a big problem, the fact that we have to spend so much of our time doing stuff that we wouldn’t be doing unless we were being paid for it.

So I would like to have more automation, right? Um, but aging is clearly a much bigger problem than that. So yeah, and I was in I had extremely undemanding job. I was working in a bioinformatics project at the University of Cambridge, which gave me a lot of spare time, I had actually taken the job. For that reason.

Boomer Anderson 26:43
I have time to explore the interests.

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 26:45
That’s right. It wasn’t an interesting job at all, but it was allowing me to do my artificial intelligence research without funding in my spare time. So all I had to do was to repurpose my spare time. And of course, I had it because I was university I had access to all the libraries and this is this one died when, in order to actually read people’s work, you will actually go to a physical library and read a physical piece of paper. And yeah, so that was very, that was very helpful. And it allowed me to pay my way to go conferences and get to know people and so on. So yeah, it was easy for me, but it’s not the kind of path most people would be able to follow.

Boomer Anderson 27:20
What resources would you recommend if somebody wanted to unpeel the layers, the onion of aging and just really sink their head into this? What are your favorite resources around it?

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 27:31
Well, because I wrote this book. It’s still very good. I think, you know, it’s written for a general audience. I mean, it’s, it’s doesn’t cut any corners. It’s very thorough. So even a seasoned biologist would not read it in one setting, but equally, it doesn’t rely on knowledge of biological jargon or anything. So yeah, it’s all good stuff.

Boomer Anderson 27:53
Dr. de Gray I want to transition for the final six questions that I asked every guest and what’s your favorite piece of technology that you’ve purchased for yourself in the past year?

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 28:06
well how do I in fact purchase any piece of technology in the past year

Boomer Anderson 28:10
I’ve had David Allen on the show and he actually didn’t purchase anything and it was kind of interesting to hear that just you know a guy I just don’t

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 28:17
yeah I can’t actually think of anything I mean I’m you know, I got given stuff a lot okay.

Boomer Anderson 28:23
But any any of those gift gifted that you remember that being

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 28:28
No, it doesn’t be boring stuff, you know, water bottles and you know, power strips.

Boomer Anderson 28:35
Okay. What book has significantly impacted your life and the ability or for you to show up and perform in it?

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 28:46
I don’t read very much I even when I was younger, I would I would not really read books that were inspiring me. Yeah, music would inspire me more I go, huh.

Boomer Anderson 28:56
Okay, then that begs the question, favorite types of music. Sure.

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 28:59
Well So when I was a teenager, I would think that you would listen to as a teenager when, in the 1970s, you know, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin.

Boomer Anderson 29:07
Excellent. Talk about music all day long. Yeah,

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 29:11
yeah. No, I am. Yeah, I guess I was inspired by some of that. Wish you were here with a song that inspired a lot of people. I guess I could count

Boomer Anderson 29:22
that one. That is a fantastic tune, actually. And how do you What’s your top trick for enhancing your focus? Ah,

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 29:32
that’s a really interesting one. Because when I started working on aging, I and I had this other job this day job in this on this bioinformatics project. I was switching between the two a lot and I found that I had a lot of downtime, it was very hard to actually switch focus and and get get properly into the The other thing, but somehow or other I managed to work my way out of that and so that I could switch really easily and Quickly, I have asked myself a lot how did what what trick did I learn, but I could never put my finger on I just basically

Boomer Anderson 30:08
tax tasks, which is a known distraction for people, right?

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 30:12
Yeah, I just got really good at it. But I never figured out how I got good at it.

Boomer Anderson 30:17
So overall, you’re able to switch tasks pretty easily.

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 30:21
But more than that, I would say Actually, I do better if I switch quite often. Okay, then if I focus for a long, long period on one thing,

Boomer Anderson 30:28
sounds like some traders listening to this may relate to that as at how do you unwind?

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 30:34
I have a hot tub. That’s the sky

Boomer Anderson 30:38
are beautiful. And in California, imagine that’s absolutely gorgeous Valley

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 30:43
is I mean, I I have extraordinarily good fortune to have a house in the mountains. Complete paradise, extraordinarily quiet and tranquil and peaceful. And thought top is the cherry on the cake does the quiet and being In the mountains help you’re thinking at all around. Okay. Yeah,

Boomer Anderson 31:04
I was. I’m a person who loves to get out into nature, but I live in a city. So it’s it’s a little bit difficult sometimes favorite place to go on vacation or holiday.

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 31:14
I actually, like staycations. I prefer to actually Yeah, because, first of all, because of the nature of my work, I don’t really like to be off the grid. I know. I’m constantly beset by the knowledge of how much backlog I’ll have when I get back on the grid. So I prefer to keep things on to keep my inbox under control. But that means that if I’m a man, I don’t have to worry about you know where the next restaurant is. I’ve got control over my environment, then that’s the most peaceful and most vacation like, situation for me. Dr. Dre, where can people find out more about you? We have a website. It’s called sens.org. And yeah, it’s got everything for everybody. Really. We have a very wide range of material of every kind of audience from complete newcomers all the way up to experts, both in our own activities and news from around the world. It talks about all of the research that we’re doing and all of the other efforts that we have. And of course, there’s a nice big friendly Donate button.

Boomer Anderson 32:18
It’s going to say there is room to donate and I think you guys accept cryptocurrencies.

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 32:22
We accept every cryptocurrency that if traded coin both, which is I think about 10 current with

Boomer Anderson 32:30
Dr. degree, thank you so much for taking the time while using presentation. I really appreciate you taking the time

Dr. Aubrey de Grey 32:36
to me. Well, thank you very much for having me.

Boomer Anderson 32:40
Wow. Aubrey is one smart guy. I especially enjoyed the conversation around AGEs or advanced glycation end products. And it’s really incredible and generous of him just to take the time to sit down. You can find the show notes for this one at decoding superhuman.com/aubrey If you enjoyed it, share it on all the social medias, be sure to tag it decoding superhuman. Because I’d love to hear from you guys. If you have any comments on the episode podcast at decoding superhuman calm is where you can reach me. If you enjoy this show and want to see it, just continue on, head over to iTunes and leave a review. I read all of them and you can expect that we may be getting doing a little bit of a giveaway sometime soon. Thank you super humans have an absolutely epic day.