Opening The Kimono

Boomer Anderson: [00:00:00]All right. We're rocking episode 200 tobetter to separate or celebrate, notseparate Jesus. Let's see how this goes. But so 200 then with my friend, myMigo, my, uh, editor Xtrordinair, Dr. Roy Matt's, he's a doctor in makingeveryone sound good. So I'm really glad that he's here today and he joins usfrom Bali of all places.

So thank you for taking a little bit of a break from thewaves to join us, to have some fun on this podcast today.

Roy Matz: [00:00:37]Thank you for thanking me and also thank you for having me as an editor as yourdoctor, because, um, it's really, it's been really a pleasure for me.

Boomer Anderson: [00:00:53]Yeah. And just before we get into the, the setup for today, look, Roy is the guywho makes everything sound good behind the scenes.

And in fact, like you've been so proactive in making theepisodes what they are both in terms of quality of sound, but also framingquestions and making sure that my voice sounds reasonable, but you've beenincredibly proactive. And so the way the podcast was done, even back onepisodes, one, two, I don't know, 40 or something is completely different fromhow we do them today.

And it's all because of this man here. So thank you.

Roy Matz: [00:01:37]You're welcome

Boomer Anderson: [00:01:40]today, episode 200. We decided we would do something different. Roy is going toask me a handful of random questions. I have not received any of thesequestions beforehand. So who knows? I may stumble. I may fall. And you guys areall gonna witness it here.

Uh, pretty much live because we're releasing this episodenext Tuesday, which is the day before I actually get married. Uh, and it'sgoing to be a doozer. So let's go. And Roy, I am now open to all of your questions.Let's see what happens. Okay. So,

Roy Matz: [00:02:20]um, as, uh, I told you before these are going to be, um, these are actuallygoing to be questions that I was curious about, and I'm sure that yourlisteners will be curious about, and actually some of your friends would becurious about, cause, uh, we've done a bit of thinking together and I'm reallyexcited for this.

A let's get it going Maine. Where do you think you've grownmost since starting this podcast? Hmm.

Boomer Anderson: [00:02:57]With this podcast, pretty much all aspects of my life have changed and it'sbeen inputs from the hundred 50 plus guests. Right. And each one of thoseinputs is a micro element that has gone into a greater change. If there is onearea where I have changed the most, it's probably in acknowledgment, but alsodealing with, and, uh, really growing in the area of mental health, meaningthat for a long time, I've had issues with anxiety and particularlyperfectionism that it, uh, points as overtaken my life, but a willingness toacknowledge that, to talk about it openly and to really realizing thatperfectionism, particularly in an entrepreneur's life does not serve me, hasbeen the largest growth point since starting this podcast by far.

And it's now to the point where anxiety though, it isoccasionally there, it doesn't really bother me on a day to day basis. I'vejust kind of accepting of what is.

Roy Matz: [00:04:18]Okay. So basically you you've done the most transformation in that area. Youfeel okay. That brings me, that brings me to, um, the next question, and wewill get back to this. We will circle back to this because I have somequestions about times five medicine, medicine, so get ready for that. But whydid you start podcasting and what was it different, uh, than what you initially

Boomer Anderson: [00:04:49]thought it would be?

So I started podcasting because I had a free space in mylife. And I was looking to have smart conversations with smart people. At thetime I was relatively new to Amsterdam and, you know, still buildingfriendships here and was really looking to reach out and speak to expertsaround the world. The good thing about podcasting is that it gives people aplatform to share their advice and people love sharing advice.

Now that allows me to reach out to experts around the worldand not have to pay these ridiculous consulting fees. So selfishly, I startedthis to have smart conversations with smart people. I didn't think it wouldlast that long. And I kind of explored the idea of what the podcast would beover time.

And initially the podcast is. Really focused on healthtechnology and these kinds of biohacking concepts that, uh, would, could beused to amplify one's performance. And at first I went so far away from thisidea of, uh, of business because I was candidly exhausted, uh, from a career ininvestment banking.

And over the past 200 episodes, we've actually come back toreally embracing the idea of the intersection between business orentrepreneurship and health. And even you saw it in episode one 99, we talkalmost strictly about business in that case. So if you've seen the journey overthe past 200 episodes, it was going from as far as hell possible from the, thebusiness arena to talking about health and technology and how we can use thesetechnologies to amplify our lives too.

Still talking about that, but bringing it much more centeredaround, uh, particularly how a person in the business world can perform attheir best without really making all of the sacrifices that are traditionallyexpected of people to work 120 hours a week or whatever it is. So the, thejourney of the podcast has been one of going completely away from business toback to this sort of intersection between business and health.

Roy Matz: [00:07:11]Mm. So I think that that actually, uh, goes to goes, goes to the next questionquite perfectly, which is what are, uh, contests you deeply disagree with thatyou thought were true in the beginning of your journey?

Boomer Anderson: [00:07:34]Uh, the first and most important one is that there is some point, uh, Iinitially thought when I started the podcast, that there would be this pointwhere I reach a quote unquote, Nirvana.

Whereas if I just got this next gadget, I just got thisnext, uh, Point in my life, whether it be 10% body fat or a below or eighthours of sleep, or, uh, being able to get a certain HRV. I thought if I gotthere, that that would be it. And I would be in this state of peace and notreally having to do much in life would just be grant.

What's really been the, the, the shift in the thing that Idisagree with from most people in this space is that it's not about the, thedestination at all. Really it's the journey that you're on, meaning that thisillusory concept, that you're going to reach a point where everything isperfect and life is great.

Isn't a losery concept and the actual journey itself is whatmatters. The things you're doing on the journey. The enjoyment of the momenthas, uh, has really just been profound. And that's been a profound shift insomething that I do disagree with from, uh, what else is out there. The otherthing that I will touch on here is looking at technology and looking at theneed to spend in order to achieve a number of these goals is something that Idisagree with.

And this is coming from a person who spent probably over aquarter of a million dollars at this point on optimizing my health and tryingthese different gadgets, these different technologies, et cetera. If you dothat, you want to do that at a state where you have your foundations built.Meaning that I went about it initially a little bit wrong.

I said that I am going to get this gadget, this toy, thisthing, if you will, which makes some claims that I think will be healthy in mylife. Yeah. And really what was missing. There was a base I wasn't sleeping.Well, initially I wasn't stressing. Well, initially I certainly wasn't gettingenough sun initially.

And I wasn't exercising in a way that was conducive to alongevity type of mindset. And so, uh, If I were to do this all again, I wouldstart by building those foundations first, getting those tests to know exactlywhat I need and then be able to go out and purchase once I've had thefoundations built.

Once I know exactly what I need, because I have the labtests, et cetera, rather than going out and buying and trying to figure it outall out myself in the first place. So I think those are two things that Icompletely disagree with in the current world. Uh, but I'm happy to share moreif you think that's, that's useful, Roy,

Roy Matz: [00:10:43]that's a strong one. And the thing that really came up, uh, you know, there'salways the kid in school that has the most expensive shit. Um, you know, thatbuys all the, the best gadgets, the best shoes, the best running shoes we allhad that, uh, the person who, uh, buys the. The the best equipment for thesport, let's say for soccer, the best shoes or the best ball or the bestthings.

But these things don't don't don't mean shit. If you, if youdon't have the foundations, right. If you're not practicing your soccer,actually, um, per se. And, um, I really love that point. So what's yourphilosophy around, because you've spent, uh, around a quarter million on thiskind of stuff. What's your investment philosophy about it right now?

So if it's first test, then buy, try, uh, one thing or testtry a bunch of things, or what's your philosophy with that when it comes,because you do come from the investing world. I know it doesn't necessarilyhave to do with that, but, um, what's your

Boomer Anderson: [00:11:57]mentality about that? If, uh, uh, first, the first step in this isidentification.

You want to identify, uh, what is, uh, missing. And in mostcases it's a multi-factorial answer, right? So you're looking at, uh, you know,uh, particular situation in your life and you find the, or you think initiallythat no red light is the answer, but maybe it's not just red light, maybe it'ssomething else.

And so you hinted at a good point. Uh, so I run tests onmyself, uh, Anywhere from every day with something like my aura ring or in somecases, a whoop, uh, to once every six months. And really those six monthperiods are the time for me to evaluate my routines. Uh, my. Protocols formyself, et cetera. And so every six months I'm running a micronutrient test,I'm running a gut test, I'm running a food sensitivity tests, and I'm reallytracking biological age over time to understand if the stuff I am doing isworking towards my goals.

I'm also tracking things like body fat, et cetera. And soonce I have all of that data, I can very clearly identify where there areinstances of need. So for me right now, one of the key focuses for me is guthealth. Uh, it's predominantly related to a parasite that I contracted a numberof years ago and has been very, very difficult to get rid of, but inidentifying that there is a parasite there.

Well, what other factors are contributing to. That guthealth. Well, is it the food that I'm eating? Sure. There's certain instancesfor that. Is it the supplements that I'm taking or the supplements that I need?Sure. There are instances of that. So once I have my data set, I lay it out andI say, where are the opportunities here for improvement?

And then I've listed out my opportunities for improvementand. If you have the opportunity to really just throw shit against the wall andsee what sticks that's okay. But it's a great way to waste money. Otherwise Ican look for what is the Archimedes' lever for boosting my performance in thiscase?

Like what, what do I need to, what is the domino that I pushthat makes all of the rest of the dominoes fall or the most dominoes fall aspossible. And lab testing allows you to do that. So once I identified thatdomino, then I'll attack. Maybe wait, wait one second,

Roy Matz: [00:14:35]one second. What are

Boomer Anderson: [00:14:37]the three tests again?

Tests are around micronutrients. So it's called a neutralVal. The second test is a three-day stool test and that I get, and that, uh, Ilook at three day stool tests rather than one day stool test, because over thecourse of three days, you, uh, you're much more likely to clear, uh, Stoolthat's been in your microbiome rather than in one case.

Not everybody clears, uh, everything at once. Let's say, uh,so I do a three-day stool test and then the third one is food sensitivities.All of those provide unique insights. One is low grade inflammation, uh,particularly looking at immunoglobulins and we'll have an episode on glycanscoming out soon. Uh, and then the second one is micro nutrients.

So what supplements do I need? What supplements are workingfor me, et cetera. And then the third one is that stool test. So I'm looking atinflammation within my gut. I'm looking at maldigestion, you know, are thesefoods that I'm eating, getting processed appropriately, and I'm looking at, uh,you know, just really do I have the presence of parasites.

And so, again, for me, that has. That provides a data setthat allows me to operate with much more information and much more precisionwhen it comes to making decisions about my health. And so then I can identifywhere I need to do the work. And usually that is a multitude of places. It canbe anywhere from sleep distress, to nutrition, et cetera.

And then of that I will prioritize. And so I will try totackle the micronutrients through nutrient balancing then that sort of an allat once, uh, nutrition and supplement protocol, but with gut health, you know,what is the aspect of gut health that could make the rest of my gut feelbetter? Uh, so in that case, that was the parasite identification.

And then from there, it just sort of, okay, how do you dealwith it? And so I've gone from. Really, uh, that whole throwing shit againstthe wall strategy and seen what sticks to breaking it down into the constituentparts and really spending the time to identify, to understand what is needed bymy biochemistry in order to help me, uh, perform optimally.

And sometimes it requires looking outside of yourbiochemistry into your environment or there's whole field of exposomics tounderstand what is, uh, really impacting you in, in a different way. Forinstance, Air pollution is huge for a lot of people. Uh, uh, other things likethe health of your oral microbiome, uh, the light quality that you're getting,you can see this light behind me right now.

If you're watching this on YouTube, that there is a vitaminD lamp behind me because Amsterdam, at least based on Almanac stats gets around67 days of sunlight a year. That's not really great for vitamin D levels or vitaminD production. And so one of the ways that I can get that is by building my ownUVB light.

And so right now the strategy is very data-driven. It'salways been pretty data-driven, but it's incredibly data-driven in terms ofshaping the decisions and becoming more accurate, more precise with thosedecisions.

Roy Matz: [00:18:02]Cool. But bam. Okay. That's enough. Uh, episode 200. Thank you so much,

bro. You dropped so many things. Uh, I feel like people haveto go to their notebooks after this. And really my biggest takeaway from thisis the fact guys that I have friends that have cabinets and cabinets andcabinets of vitamin a, and that has spent so much money that wasn't well spenton just throwing shit at the wall.

And I think they could have, and I can, I've been sending inthat as well, you know? Uh, I'm just like thinking, Oh, I have a skin problem.I probably need this. Or, um, or, uh, I'm probably not getting enough sun, soI'm probably gonna have to do this to actually understanding the fundamentalsof what you are doing wrong and right.

And that's the biggest, biggest takeaway is that theinvestment in actually testing these things actually can actually. Make youwalk towards your, your, your, I guess, healthiest self. Um, which sounds a bitof a cliche to me, you know? Cause every, every, uh, every prison here in Baliis trying to work towards their healthiest self.

Um, but you've got to do the work. You gotta do thefundamental work, which you've just laid out so perfectly. Um, I want to ask youanother thing. What's one thing that you can think of that let's say in thepast year or two that you unlearned

Boomer Anderson: [00:19:53]a while I, uh, come up with a better answer to this, um, let let's the. Firstone that comes to mind is perfectionism. Of course. And I think it is somethingthat if you're going to decide, and there's a lot of people now, because thebarriers to entry are lower than ever, uh, that want to explore this idea ofentrepreneurship.

And if you're an entrepreneur, one of the thirst things thatI recommend trying to unlearn is perfectionism because you'll spend months andmonths and months trying to update a website because you don't think it'sperfect, but the truth is it'll never be perfect. And so just release aniterate. That is one of the first things that, uh, I unlearned and instill inthe process of unlearning at times.

Uh, the second one, which is actually been very, veryhelpful is, uh, unlearning. Rigidity in a schedule. What do I mean by that? Iused to be the type of person and I've given lectures on productivity and stufflike that who, uh, would schedule my entire day, minute by minute almost. Andthat can actually create a lot of anxiety in it in itself.

Right? Like if somebody is late for a call, even though itmay be like an easy thing to do or a certain reason, it can create anxiety. NowI embrace sort of what Jeff Bezos calls a putz scene. And if you look at my daywith the exception of when I have to talk to Roy, when he's in Bali, it. Myday, nothing starts before 11:00 AM.

And what does that allow me to do? It gives me free time towork on my most important projects to check in with San Francisco and the teamover at transcriptions to, uh, get my workouts in, to learn something new. AndI have a little bit fluidity in that schedule that I didn't have before. If youlook at my calendar, there's nothing scheduled before 11:00 AM, meaning that Idon't even schedule the workouts to now.

There is a point with people that it is helpful to schedulethings. If you are inherently lazy, then it may be a good idea to put things onthe schedule to force you to do stuff. But if you get to the point of thiswhole perfectionism, or even trying to schedule a day, minute by minute, Tryingthat those gaps where you're allowing yourself some free time to putz toexplore, to learn, uh, that has been a game changer for me.

And I know for a fact that has contributed to, uh, theincredible decrease in anxiety that I've had for the first time, really in myentire life.

Roy Matz: [00:22:56]Okay. That brings me to a whole different area, but you mentioned working outand, um, I wanna, I just wanna run through the questions because we're gonnacircle back to so many of the things that you've said. Um, but as we've talkedabout, you know, like, um, biohacking and kind of buying toys and realizingwhat you need for your, um, cabinet, let's say, what do you do when it comes toworking out.

In that sense. So do you use these tests for your workout ordo you do different tests? What's your outlook

Boomer Anderson: [00:23:39]on that? So going back to the test that I use, uh, there are three tests that Iuse, uh, looking at micronutrients. And within that test, there's also lookingat heavy metals and oxidative stress. And I'll come back to that in a second.

You look at gut health and there is a correlation, uh, ifyou will, almost not a dose dependent curve, but a, uh, an inverse you curvewith working out and gut health. Uh, and then there's, uh, uh, food info, um,food and sensitivities tests. And now on top of that, I'm also looking atbiological age and I'm looking at body fat.

And so all of those can actually input on, uh, What type ofworkouts or how intense I go. Uh, if you look at gut health, uh, there is an a,I've been trying to find this study, but it was referenced to me when I wasspeaking with a mentor. Uh, there is some correlation between athletes and poorgut health or dysbiosis.

And just trying to achieve that balance, if you will, of notgoing overboard to cause dysbiosis or over-training is something that I'm verycognizant of. And looking at those tests helped me do it. Oxidative stress. Ifyou look at, uh, Inflammation, uh, being a product of oxidative stress or viceversa, uh, oxidative stress can come from working out.

And so if you live a life, as I did in finance, where I wasworking out too much, not sleeping, traveling all the time and just stressedout that can produce oxidative stress and over a prolonged period of time, itcan lead to adverse conditions. Uh, those that all goes into informing mydecision on my workout program, uh, that is also coupled with a body fat goal,because I know that, uh, I have a family history of obesity that I amconstantly trying to avoid.

And so the, the body fat goal is, is certainly incorporatedin that and informs the workouts that I do. Just based on my experimentationover time, I know that there are certain types of workouts that helped me keepthat body fat down. And there are certain types of workouts where I will puton, uh, more size.

And for me, it's no longer a question of like trying tocompete in a bodybuilding competition or even trying to compete at a higherweight class in a power lifting competition. It's more of a question oflongevity, but with, uh, certain benefits, like general physical preparednessand being able to do whatever I want at any given time.

Roy Matz: [00:26:24]Yeah. Peter at PF talks about it beautifully. In my opinion, I've been geekingon his, uh, researches and all this stuff. Amazing work that he does. Uh, and Ihope that we're gonna. We're going to have him on this show at some

Boomer Anderson: [00:26:38]point, but him and I can talk about F1 forever too. So that would be fun.

Roy Matz: [00:26:43]Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, so the, the, so what, what you're saying,let's just like, put it in more of a concise box is basically taking thesetests, taking your lifestyle scene, uh, in, in tailoring is where you are inlife. So basically there's not a one fits all. There's actually a few thatwould probably fit two for every person.

And if, and it kind of sounds like something that can repeatitself, you know, once you know that mechanism, of course it changes a littlebit to hear and to hear because you know, we're not getting any younger, butit's, uh, uh, it's a mechanism that once you're tapped into, you can do it. Imean, pretty easily, if you, if you know what your AKI or your meters shouldlook like and, um, And what you need to do to

Boomer Anderson: [00:27:38]achieve those things, and also what time you have available.

So there's going to be different time periods in life,where, you know, I suspect that later this year, I'm going to have less timeavailable than I do now. Or I suspect that if I had kids, I would have lesstime available and you have to adjust based on that. But there is that goingback to that idea of fluidity, I don't have to be as rigid as I used to be withmy workouts.

I can, um, embrace different modalities and try things outbecause after all, like, if you do the same thing day in and day out for years,unless you have a trainer you're going to get bored as hell. And so it's goodto, to change those up every once in a while and adjust to where you are inlife.

Roy Matz: [00:28:24]And also, uh, in addition to boring, it's not only boring, but it's also, itgets your body.

It gets you move in a certain way and it gets you, um, yourbody's expecting certain things. That's why I think, uh, play is reallyimportant that we talked about it last time, actually in play in doing thingsthat are unexpected and going actually thought of going climbing today or doingsomething that's unusual to your body.

Um, I think that that's a huge, huge, huge thing that peopleneed to incorporate more of and same goes to me, you know? Um, so I wanna, Iwant to take you to a more personal place right now because I did, I did saythat we're going to take it to a more personal place. What was your lowest,lowest moment? In the realm of time since you've started,

how did it look?

Boomer Anderson: [00:29:38]Very difficult question, my friend. Um, so, uh, uh, I'm not gonna name peopleor anything, but if you were to go back in time and it was kind of not earlyfall, but late summer, a couple of years ago, there was a point in time where Ihad a lot going on and I was trying to run a business, uh, with people I didn'tgenerally enjoy working with.

And I was. At that point, I'm allergic to the idea offailure, meaning that I thought failure meant that I had failed acrosseverything and that was going to be my entire life. And this actually gets intothe introduction by the way of things like psychedelics and other things. Um,and I accepted, or I, I took a look at the, the sort of playground, if youwill, or the, the ground and the game that I was playing.

And I, I had this moment where I just said, Hey, what I'mdoing right now is leading me down a path that I don't want to go down. And itis doing that with people that I am not necessarily fond of speaking to everyday. And it is, uh, making me more stressed than happy and. That was again, uh,over, over a year ago now several years ago.

And with the help of a few other people that are now, uh,very involved in, uh, in my life and things that I do, uh, I decided to pullthe plug on that opportunity and by doing so, I was actually able to step backand decide what game did I want to play? Because it didn't at that time, it wasvery, very stressful, you know, money was going out the door because I wasfunding this all myself.

Uh, we weren't making that much money at the time on theproduct project. And yeah, there was this inherent, uh, internal conversationabout the value of money, of course, but it was very, very hard for me to lookback on it and say, or to look at it and say like, Hey, this isn't working inthis form. And. It was making me very upset.

I was blowing up, uh, you know, I was blowing up otheropportunities in order to make this one work because it was mine. It was mybaby. And then ultimately I arrived at the decision to pull the plug on itbecause, uh, you know, at the end of the day, life is short. Uh, I wasn't,again, I wasn't sleeping very well.

I was stressed. I was, I remember being in Argentina andcompletely missing out on a tour of one SRAs to, uh, to deal with thisparticular project. And yes, as an entrepreneur, there are certain times whereyou are going to need to sacrifice a time or an experience in order to work onyour business. And I completely get that and support that.

But when I was. Taking a step back from that moment, it mademe realize that this was going in a direction that I didn't want to go with mylife. And just because I had already invested quite a lot of money at thatpoint in making this work doesn't mean that it was worth continuing to invest.So that was probably, uh, that was the lowest point.

Uh, and it was a Testament to some of the people that I'mnow very close with, that they recognized, uh, certain other skills within me,but also things that I wanted to do. And I started to value the people I wasworking with more rather than just, uh, trying to really build something andsay it was a success just because my name was attached to it.

Roy Matz: [00:33:52]Aspect,

Boomer Anderson: [00:33:55]you made me very uncomfortable there, man. That was like, just, you just dowait. Okay. We're getting uncomfortable today.

Roy Matz: [00:34:04]All right. Comfortable that people needed to be how you are when you'reuncomfortable.

Boomer Anderson: [00:34:08]Right. Okay. I'm totally, I'm totally okay with being uncomfortable. That'sagain, another change that it's come since this podcast.

So

Roy Matz: [00:34:17]I wanna, I wanna touch on a few things that you were saying there. I think thatyou made an extreme change since, since I've started working with you and itfeels like just the way that you started taking things and incorporatingthings. It's so different. It's like night and day. Um, and I can feel it onthe interaction with me on your interaction with the world.

I remember you having like this fork in the road and. Yeah,you were so confused, but you know, it's, the thing is, and just being in Balireally teaches me now, is that okay? You know, life puts things in front of youfor a reason. And if you see things again and again, and again, and again, andagain, there's the reason that you see these things, right?

And there is a reason that these things are happening andwe're not going to go low on that. Cause it's not just like back. If you're,if, if, if, uh, you see something all the time, it means that your system isgeared towards it. And you either need to gear yourself the other way, or youshould go through it.

Um, th these are the two options that are possible. And Ifeel like, you know, you were probably presented with this thing of, you know,I've invested so much in this, so what do I do now? But the thing is you,haven't just invested in the people who, you know, uh, um, go and learn salesand then go work as videographers.

They haven't went and wasted all that money because now theyknow how to sell what they photograph or what they, what they get captured.Right. So it's, it's it always integration. And I think that people forget itand say, Oh, that was a waste or whatnot, but it's just, it's in the end, itjust gives you more depth.

In my opinion. That's what I'm trying to say. All theseinvestments, just give you more experience in depth.

Boomer Anderson: [00:36:23]You're you're a hundred percent correct. Right? Like everything that I didduring that point, Though at the time, I regard it as a failure. It's only comereally back full circle, and I can use those experiences, both with people, butalso in building businesses.

Right. Because I know that going down a certain path won'twork or that this tool will be very effective for this solution. So well said.

Roy Matz: [00:36:47]Yeah. And that the person you're working with might be toxic to you and tohimself, you can know it by like, if you see them eating McDonald's everyday,you know that they're probably not doing similar things to what you're doing.

So you're kind of, that might be a red flag for you. It'sjust, there are so many things, you know, that I can, that I can tell you aboutyou, that, that. I mean, yeah. I feel like you're super, super, um, it's, it'sa point on things to say and, and it's a lot of people are going throughsimilar things. So I appreciate you for opening up, but if we're talking aboutopening up, we're gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make you maybe even open thatcame on a little bit more.

Would you be able to tell us about one of your, um, plantmedicine experience and get, and get kind of specific and you don't, you know,what, if you don't want to get specific? Uh, it's totally understandable, butmaybe a big takeaway or

Boomer Anderson: [00:37:51]instead

Roy Matz: [00:37:52]of the sentence settings would be cool. Okay. Um,

Boomer Anderson: [00:37:59]The one of the first times I ever microdose was how I arrived, arrived at not aRove does not early a word.

I arrived at making the decision to pull the plug on thatbusiness. Uh, but let's go into some of those, uh, those journeys, if you will,the first time or the first experience I ever had with DMT, uh, I was in asetting with somebody who is very, uh, trained in how to, uh, to deal withtherapeutic situations, um, particularly in using these various modalities thatsome people term as plant medicine and, uh, that.

Journey. If you will, was an incredibly painful one for me,uh, you know, you're sitting there and with DMT, when your eyes are closed iswhere you go off into various States. Uh, but when your eyes are open, it'salmost like life is normal a little bit again, but I kept my eyes closed the Fthe first time or the whole time.

And this was the first time I've ever done it. And I thinkthere is there's this. A statement out there of something, uh, you can have abad trip. And one of the things that I've learned in doing these journeys isjust a perspective, a different perspective. So in this particular situation,again, the first time I've done DMT, I'd had numerous experiences with otherpsychedelics at that point.

But DMT in itself was a new one and I was going through andyou start to see like the sacred geometry and various images, et cetera. Um,and then it got very, very quiet and got physically painful. And I began tosort of hear a lot of the, um, a lot of these stories that I had run through myhead over and over again.

And. Uh, those stories were in regards to what other peoplethought of me, uh, what they, what their perspective was of either the things Iwas creating in the world or the choices that I've made to perhaps leavefinance or the, uh, the general need of external validation. And that was in mymind mind at the time of very bad experience, it was incredibly painful,physically.

Like my chest was starting to seize up and I kept hearingthese voices run through my head, et cetera, et cetera. And that actuallywasn't in hindsight, a bad trip. He was showing me what I needed to work on.And if you kind of go yeah, into these journeys, if you will, with the idea ofa good or bad outcome, you can, uh, you can miss out on a lot of the.

The learnings from it. And so at the end again, I was veryfortunate that I was working with somebody who knew what they were doing andcould, uh, talk me through, through what it meant for me in a therapeuticsetting. But that shift in perspective to, okay, I just had this bad trip andall of these things that I had been working on are now coming to the surface.

And I clearly thought I had dealt with these already, but Ihadn't to now, okay. Let's focus on why you need the external validation. Whyis it important? Uh, what other people think of you, et cetera? That was anincredibly. Part part of the integration afterwards. Right. And getting into,uh, more, uh, just looking at the, the trip insane.

Okay. It wasn't a bad trip because it brought up all thisstuff. It just showed you what you needed to work on. And that one line, and itwas one line that the person said to me afterwards changed the entireexperience. It went from being, okay, this was a miserable, however many hoursit was to. Okay. Now I have something that I know I need to work on.

And since that point it's actually become less of a, adriver in my life, external validation that is like, yes, there's this constantbattle with the ego. But in that moment, uh, yeah, I was, I was struggling veryhard, but since that moment I've gone down this path of, okay, what do I want?Right. What do I, as a person in this world want to accomplish and what isimportant to me rather than me going out and doing things to either, uh, youknow, impress my father or to impress the people around me, it's more beenabout, okay, what do I want in order to live a more fulfilling life?

And for me, that was again, incredibly painful in the momentbecause you spend all this time and I've already alluded to how much money thatI've spent in this space, trying to deal with these anxieties deal with thisneed for external validation. And I think a lot of people in this space, uh, dohave, uh, a, a need for external validation and it's reinforced through areaslike social media, et cetera, but getting to a space after that journey wherebyit was more okay, what do I want to create in this world?

Because I know I'm pretty talented. I know I have afunctioning brain and I know I have certain interests and that, that lesson wasinvaluable to me.

Roy Matz: [00:43:55]Okay. So, wow. That was, uh, that was how long ago

Boomer Anderson: [00:44:07]of slightly over a year? Actually, maybe even a little less. Uh, it was probablymore like 10 months ago.

Roy Matz: [00:44:16]So yeah, people might've, I feel like there was, you know, there was a timewhen. Uh, um, you started bringing more, uh, diverse, let's just say diverse,uh, diverse type of, uh, guests.

And I think it was probably that time where it was getgetting a bit less and less science. And to me it was just like so excitingbecause, you know, as, as an audio editor, I, I have to be as objective aspossible. And I have to kind of see things from the side and, you know,sometimes keep my mouth shut and it's just to me.

Because I always have to go through this audio and listen toit. And I love, and I don't work with people who are not interesting to me.It's just so fascinating to see how people go through these transitions. Um,and I feel like around, around a year ago, if people look back is when hestarted really opening the spectrum up.

And to me, it was like, Oh, this, this podcast is, isgaining a totally different room now, like, this is we're going up. We're goingon another level because we're getting geeky about stuff, but we're also reallyopening up the kimono as he would like to say,

Boomer Anderson: [00:45:36]yeah, you, you know, my phrase as well. Right. And I think, again, it was moreopening up the kimono to say, I don't have to be like.

I don't have to have this particular guest on becausethey're going to get me a lot more attention or a lot more views. I can go andselect the people that I want to speak with. And the people that really, um,ignite me from both an intellectual and personal perspective. And that allowedme to, it was almost like a freeing sense if you will.

Roy Matz: [00:46:07]Yeah. So it's like, it's, it's, um, it's as if it kind of ignited somethingthat, that, that, that should have been there, but, you know, like, but you hadto go through it to kind of open that up and yeah, I find that, I find thatinsane that I, I really, you know, and for the people, you know, listening andwanting to do these kinds of, of experiences, I think that you would agree withno rush, like, no, No freaking rush.

If you've gotten exposed to it through this podcast orthrough other podcasts that you listened to, I feel like, uh, an importantthing to, to have a disclaimer about is don't go looking for it anywhere ifit's, if it, if it needs to happen to you, it'll, it'll draw you in. Um, andthis is just, you know, this is just my experience.

What's your experience with it? Like

Boomer Anderson: [00:47:06]in terms of just psychedelics in general?

Roy Matz: [00:47:09]No, in terms of the, like this, uh, uh, calling to action, people are like,Whoa, they heard this story about the, uh, about your, your experience. Andthey they're like, Oh, that's cool. Um, what I'm just saying is probably thatthe, the seed is planted right now, but don't rush into it.

Boomer Anderson: [00:47:34]Exactly. A very good point. So first. I want to acknowledge something. Uh, I aman experiments or an Explorer. And, uh, I waited for a very, very long timebefore using, um, psychedelics plant medicine and Diogenes whatever the termis. And it was only when I had a trusted partner that I felt comfortable ortrusted a therapist, if you will.

But I felt comfortable going down this journey. I'm also ofthe view that these are not for everybody and they certainly don't need to be,be used by everybody. And that's perfectly okay. But what I do want people toembrace is the idea that there is, uh, these alternatives out there that youcan explore.

And again, if you have the right set and setting and theright guide, they can be very, very powerful, uh, for particular, uh, issues,but also discoveries.

Roy Matz: [00:48:38]The big one that, uh, actually I had the, uh, I had a little chakra readinghere and, uh, the person, it was like in a mountain and super spiritual placeand people who are tapped in, like, I probably haven't, haven't seen this, thistype of human beings in my life.

Um, and he was like, you know, don't, uh, um, you're doingwell. Don't worry for the mentors. The mentors will show up, the Teesha willshow up and they'd come. You know, that's where the, the sentence comes from,uh, when the student is ready to teach and the teacher will come and I thinkit's so, so, so, so fundamental to these types of medicines.

Um, so I wanna, I want to take it to, uh, another kind of,uh,

Boomer Anderson: [00:49:35]You're you're doing good at like, getting very, very personally or man, thisis, this is fun, but damn uncomfortable. It's fun too.

Roy Matz: [00:49:43]Okay. So do you wanna let's let's, I'll give you the privilege because, uh,I've, I've gotten pretty personal with you. Would you like to answer anotherpersonal question?

Boomer Anderson: [00:49:54]Okay.

Dealer's choice. Dealer's choice, wherever you want to go.

Roy Matz: [00:49:58]There we go. Okay. So trauma and its relation to health. What's your opinionabout that?

Boomer Anderson: [00:50:07]Uh, of course like it has a huge effect on health, I think at a. So traumadifferent forms, right? Uh, trauma can be, uh, what we traditionally think oftrauma as sort of a, uh, a PTSD like event.

Um, it can come in subtler forms with how you're treated asa child, or even an experience you had where maybe you had a panic attack onstage or something like that. Of course it has a huge impact on health. And Ithink we're just now. I mean, the we're not just now psychology has been aroundfor a long time.

Psychiatry has been around for a long time, and there is alot of discussion within those realms about mental health and traumas and howit impacts our lives, et cetera. Uh, but now we're starting to become more openabout discussing these things as a society and how they've created blocks fromliving our most fulfilling lives.

And if there's a trend that, uh, look, I pay attention totrends both in terms of business, but just in terms of news trends, if there'sa trend that I look at and say like, Hey, that's pretty cool. It's this opendiscussion about mental health now? Do I think that trend is as big as it needsto be. No. In certain circles you are still encouraged to, uh, not discussmental health to, uh, never let him see you sweat to using the Nelly termactually.

And I think trauma is a very important discussion that needsto happen. There's a book out there called the body, keeps the score, which Ihaven't read, but, uh, has been recommended to me by numerous people that are,um, are interested in this sort of thing. I've instead spoken to a lot of thetherapists and a lot of the people using these modalities, like plant medicineto, uh, reveal traumas and to uncover and deal with those traumas.

And, uh, I guess, uh, de-energized them so prevent them fromtaking over your life. And I think it is a very good trend in society that wetalk about mental health.

Roy Matz: [00:52:30]Yes. Agreed. So I want to take it into a bit of a, of a, you know, what it'sthe same direction, but it's like, is there anything, any like pet peeve oranything like that, that you still have that you're still kind of dealing withas we speak?

Boomer Anderson: [00:52:51]Of course. Right. Uh, we all have our individual, uh, the things that we'reworking on and you're talking about a pet peeve that I have specifically that Iwant to deal with. Let's say

Roy Matz: [00:53:04]it can be a light thing as well. Like for me, I, I really, I really don'tunderstand the concept of cheers. It pisses me off.

So yeah. Cheers. I just don't the concept of in somebodyplease enlighten me about that. Um, it's uh, one of the listeners knows, I knowthat it comes from, uh, ancient culture and from people banging the glass and,uh, so there's not. So if somebody has any poisons, so they don't spill it inthe glass, but I think it got to me, it just like symbolizes nothing at all.

Boomer Anderson: [00:53:45]Let's go with, there'll be the surface level one, and then there'll be aslightly bigger one. So a surface level pet peeve of mine is people who chewwith their mouth open, um, that it drives me bonkers. Uh, in certain culturesit's encouraged, for instance, in Japan, if you go to a ramen shop and youdon't slurp your noodles, as you're eating them, it's assigned to the chef thathe didn't do a good job.

So I've become a little bit more accepting of that inparticular cultural situations, but in general, like biggest pet peeve ispeople chewing with their mouth open, uh, at a, another level slightly down.Um, and this occurs a lot in this health sphere is, uh, when one person sayssomething particularly a person of influence, it seems like the message getsrepeated over and over and over again.

And in a lot of cases, it may not be true. And this is thecase with certain products, but also just the language that people use to talkabout certain things. And you kind of see this in the spiritual AAF crowd,right? They all use similar language to describe something. And if you getthem, one-on-one either they won't be able to explain it or they.

Uh, tend to have a different experience than what they'reshowing on the various social media. So that's, uh, a much bigger pet peeve andslightly less surface level.

Roy Matz: [00:55:19]Yeah. I really respect that about you. And, uh, you know, like everything thatyou endorse, you actually, uh, take part in which, uh, I I've worked with a lotof podcasts and it's not the case.

Every time people, people recommend things that they don't ahundred percent, uh, a hundred percent support by themselves. Um, and that's athing that happens and I respect you for that, by the way, boomer, if boomerhad a billion dollars, um, what would you allocate it to? And you can onlyspend it in one day.

Boomer Anderson: [00:56:09]And I can only spend it in one day. Um, yeah,

Roy Matz: [00:56:12]no, no investment, no investment funds or anything like that. He doesn't haveto spend it. And that's a cop on real thing. Yeah.

Boomer Anderson: [00:56:20]A lot of my actions today are involving all, everything kind of lines up to onesimilar mission, which is how do we move the needle on health?

Or how do I elevate the human experience or what we're doinghere on this planet through health. And so if I'm going to spend it, it's goingto be allocated towards that goal. Now, how would I break that down? I do thinkthere is a hell of a lot of education that needs to be made around health, um,and particularly, and particularly.

Money. And we're doing some of that, uh, the healthcomponent as well, uh, through health optimization medicine and practice, whichis a nonprofit that I'm involved in. And so I'd allocate a certain portion ofmoney to bat and boosting its presence and influence the good thing abouthaving a billion dollars and in today's society is that if you have a billiondollars and you're a billionaire, you have a certain level of influence andpeople will listen to you.

So I would use that money or the perception of having thatmoney first to gain that influence within the spheres that make, uh, tidesreally change. And I would allocate a decent portion of it towards that healtheducation and making sure that, uh, that, that grew and I would spend the restof it on either creating products, services, or, uh, Or experiences that helpenhance elevating that human experience through health.

Because for me, if you can change the health of this planet,even by a few degrees, we will have completely different outcomes. We know thathealth influences decision-making, uh, which is going to be, it's becomingincredibly more crucial and incredibly, um, more important as we have some ofthese more frontier technologies, uh, coming into the world.

And if, uh, we can influence health decision making improvesthe way we treat each other improves the way we will probably look at thisplanet improves and the way, uh, you know, just in general, we're able tonavigate the challenges that we face will improve. So give me a billion dollarsand I'll allocate it all towards that mission.

Roy Matz: [00:58:46]Yeah, you'll, you'll spread it pretty wide. You'd probably need the hobbies 24hours for, for that. Cause it's a lot, a lot of things.

Boomer Anderson: [00:58:54]If you're telling me I only have 24 hours, then I'm probably going to pull anall nighter in this case, which I don't advocate normally, but it's actually,it's actually quite hard to spend a billion.

It's probably not hard, but I wouldn't spend it frivolously.Right. Like maybe I would buy, maybe I would buy a house that I could live in.But other than that, I would definitely allocate it more towards that mission.

Roy Matz: [00:59:19]Hmm. Yeah. And also, you know, being realistic, buying a house in 24 hours isprobably not the best place to go, but, um, real estate aside, I will probablyhave a in episode about this, um, point because, uh, you know, you're kind of,um, Because of the, the realm of things that we're experiencing, but what'ssomething really exciting that has happened to you in these, in these episodes.

What, what is something that, that maybe the podcast hascaused? Well, it's something really exciting that that happened, that you rememberyourself like being like

yeah. And their results or, or just in this time period.

Boomer Anderson: [01:00:12]If you actually look at, let's look at the overall journey, uh, on the podcastand you remind me, remember me from the early days I was quite wound tight.Right. And there were certain ways that I would react to people. There arecertain things that I would get stressed about and that in general has, hasdissipated in the sense that, uh, you know, okay.

Yeah, I still get stressed. There's still things that I'mdealing with. Like the Villa owner in Bali, where I was supposed to have mywedding that are kind of frustrating. Uh, but at the same time, there's been a,uh, a deemphasis on that, meaning that it comes and it kind of bounces off ofme. And so it's a little, a lot more resilient now.

If I were to look at particular conversations where I leftthat and I was like, wow, I just, uh, I feel like a kid again or something ofthat nature. And I think overall, you can kind of see I've come back to this,uh, youthful plainness in a way and having fun, because I don't think a hundredepisodes ago we would have had a similar conversation that we're having now.

But if we

Roy Matz: [01:01:22]people don't even know and they probably know, but they, they don't even know.Okay.

Boomer Anderson: [01:01:27]Yeah. So if we look at specific conversations and ones that have lit me up, uh,each conversation, uh, light and lights me up in different ways. So if you lookat, uh, conversations with guys like Francisco Gonzalez, NEMA, uh, NeilGrunberg.

Yeah. Those light me up because they are at the absolute topof their field and their specific, very specific fields and just learning fromthem. I feel like I'm back in university, but in a class I actually fucking like.And so in a way I've crafted the podcast to be sort of a university for me andfor all the listeners.

But instead of having it be psychology, one Oh one whereyou're sitting there with 700 people and nobody really enjoys the lecture,you're sitting there and you're enjoying a one-to-one intimate conversationwith these people. And I get to ask the questions that I want to ask ratherthan listening to a standard form lecture.

That's great. And I think that's an overall theme for thepodcast. Um, there's, I'm just trying to think of one or two where I've satthere and just been almost in awe at the, the conversation itself. Um, I enjoy.Conversations with Dave RayBan quite a lot. And he's at the kind of frontier ofthis psychiatry East meets West, uh, psychedelics movement even.

And a lot of those conversations have gone unrecorded andare, uh, really just fun. He's a fun guy to talk to you because he is soknowledgeable, but he's very good at distilling a message and something peopleunderstand. Um, then there are people I'm trying to think of. Who's an examplerecently that I've spoken to, um, there are people like Dominic D'Agostino thatdespite.

His level of authority on something like the ketogenic diet.I can have a conversation with him about weightlifting and a meal structure.That all makes sense. And it's just a lot of fun. Again, those areconversations where I leave in a, I'm sort of at a state where it's just like,Oh, I just had the chance to talk to that person.

And it was little old me three years ago who decided to takethis to start a podcast. And at first I was like, I don't know if anybody willtalk to me and now I'm getting access to some of these top people in the world.Um, the one that actually sticks out most and has been a big theme in mylicense, that conversation was with Greg McKeown and he wrote a book calledessentialism.

I think he's come out with a book since then calledeffortless. And I remember getting off of that podcast and we stopped, uh, the,the recording. And it is around one of these times where I was, uh, involved inway too many projects. And a couple of our mutual friends helped me kind ofshoot those, some of those down.

And he just said to me, he's like, seems like you're goingto have some tough conversations in the near future. And I didn't even think Ihinted at much in that podcast episode, but I remember that just that phrase.And I took it away. And I think in the next six months from then I went fromhaving 20 plus projects down to maybe five or six.

And so that, that one was, was very powerful.

Roy Matz: [01:04:58]Oh yeah. That's actually like that would, would have answered. My next questionwas what's one thing that you were. Kind of like one fighting thing thathappened to you in that time, which I think, you know, you can, it's probablyyour, your marriage would come into that and, you know, just like things inthere in your personal life.

But I feel like that point, I remember that point in yourlife where you were like, I'm probably going to be losing, I'm probably gonnabe, um, losing a lot of so-called money, but I'm actually going to do somethingthat's way more impactful. And you know what, I've watched that documentary onGaia called, uh, finding Joe.

And it's about the hero's journey. It's like super cringe. Imean, it's, if, if you're, if you're a prison that doesn't like these kinds ofthings, um, I mean, I couldn't watch the secret, but I could watch this, um,Because it was just talking about the fundamental of finding your bliss andgoing for it. And the rest will kind of fix itself.

And I feel like that's what you did at that point. So that'sa really, really exciting thing that, uh, that have happened in your, in yourcareer that I was witnessing that it's just crazy. Um, from a standpoint likethis, you know, to be, um, you know, you are the little man and then you becomethe big mess.

And without even knowing, you know, you're starting to dolike kinos and you're starting to actually, um, get your face out there, um,because of these connections that you've created. And you know, to me, it'sreally a way more standup boomer than it was in the beginning. It's like here,you're standing up so much taller.

You're. You're you're speaking so much more confident.You're not hiding. You're just like this just genuine dude. You're not doinganything with the motive. You're just going towards something. So somethingincredible that people have to really tune into because you had done in, insame process. I, I want, um, I want to leave the crowd with, uh, this questionand it's another, it's a it's I wouldn't say it's a, it's a personal one, butit's, uh, it's, it's, it's the curve ball that I'm sending you.

And if you'd have to write a book about your experience fromthese 200 episodes, what would it be called?

Um,

Boomer Anderson: [01:07:53]mean part of me says it would be inappropriate to call it anything other thandecoding superhuman. But, uh, what I would emphasize a little bit more is thedecoding aspect of it. Because initially when I came up with the name, I mean,I think I told this story before where I was sitting there with a whiteboardand I was writing down names on a whiteboard and putting words together andjust seeing what.com was available.

And we eventually arrived at Dakota and superhuman. Right.Uh, I'm not joking. There was, I remember putting together names and one of theother names that I was tossing up because the.com was also available was fixingbroken, but that didn't really have the message that I was looking for. And,uh, what I was.

Uh, you know, when I came up with Dakota and superhuman,there was this idea of becoming the, the Uber mench, if you will. And ifanything, over the course of the 200 episodes, um, I've kind of realized thatsuperhuman is obviously individual for, for superhuman, for certain people, asuperhuman can mean just being able to get out of bed during the day and nothaving to deal with things like chronic fatigue, uh, for others, it could meanrunning or doing whatever Simone Biles is going to attempt to do in Tokyo.

Uh, those kinds of things. But for me, the emphasis reallybecomes, uh, on decoding and, uh, decoding a process and decoding, uh, justtactics tools that people including myself can use in everyday life to just.Uh, kick more ass to do whatever it is they need to do better. And justdecoding really what superhuman is for you.

And, uh, if I were to call the book, anything, it wouldprobably be, uh, decoding superhuman, or,

Roy Matz: [01:09:58]you know what, let me rephrase that question. Let me reframe that question. Andwhat would, what would the tagline be like underneath the decoding superhuman?So, you know, like there's, uh, uh, uh, unfuck yourself, the art of, uh, not,uh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Okay. What would that be?

Boomer Anderson: [01:10:18]Uh, you know, unfuck yourself as a great one. Yeah. Unfuck yourself as a goodone, but, uh, learning to enjoy the journey is where I would probably leave itbecause there. Again, we live in an achievement based society, or at least mostWestern societies are a achievement goal by a society.

And, uh, even the way our work is structured, where we workto this idea of retirement, and then we're going to enjoy life that all issupportive of not really enjoying the journey and getting, uh, hopefullygetting to this illusionary destination at some point in the future in whichyou may die in a few years anyway.

And so for me, the entire, uh, the entire experience hasbeen about learning to enjoy the journey or staying present.

Roy Matz: [01:11:15]So the coding super human and enjoying it.

Boomer Anderson: [01:11:19]Exactly.

Roy Matz: [01:11:20]Huh? Okay. Okay.

Boomer Anderson: [01:11:24]On that one, before we have a New York times bestseller on our hands, uh,

Roy Matz: [01:11:29]I mean, you did, you did, uh, pull off a few moves that not a lot of peoplewould, uh, would even tried. So you never know, you never know, right?

Boomer Anderson: [01:11:40]Well, I can, I can maybe rack, let me, re-read on this one because I thinkthere's, um, there's a better title that could be at hand here.

If you look at, uh, the structure of the podcast over thepast 200 episodes, uh, what I've done is, uh, looking to understand the waypeople tick the way technology's tick the way chemicals tick in order to helpus live healthier, higher performing lives. And. Over the course of that 200episodes, you derive certain insights.

You derive a certain processes. You derive certain playsthat you can make in order to live a healthier and higher performing life. Andso I would call it the playbook really, and then I would subtitle it, learningto enjoy the journey, because again, we have, uh, the, the societal structuresthat take away from the moment that we're living in and have us focus on thefuture.

And, uh, really one of the biggest lessons for me in doingthis has been, uh, Moving back from those very far reaching goals in thefuture, to a point where you're enjoying the journey in the moment, still havethose goals, but you're enjoying the journey in the moment. And a lot of whatI've tried to do is give people points, tidbits, tactics, tools, to help themcome back to that state.

Roy Matz: [01:13:31]Yep. All right. Um, anyone that wants that, um, book, you can pre-order ittoday on Amazon? No, I'm just kidding. You know, I, again, I'll encouragepeople who listen to this and haven't gotten this have gotten this far to justlike. Hit you up and let you know that because you know, I can't wait to seewhat a book that you write with, uh, would look, sound and feel like, cause youhave it all.

Um, when you, when you write a book these days and you know,if somebody else feels like me out there, then, um, then it's hit our boy up.Um, uh, you are off, you are off the hot seat. You are off the curve balls. Youare. Um, the, these are the questions that I thought would be, would, wouldactually touch a lot of the things that you've been through.

And, uh, and I'm so grateful to have gone through this withyou, man. So thank you for being who you

Boomer Anderson: [01:14:41]are and doing what you do. And dude, we're not stopping anytime soon. So I hopeyou're up for a further ride. Uh, this is going to be a lot of fun, but thankyou for everything you've done, Roy you've, uh, you've really changed the showand, uh, you, you constantly push me to be better, to record better, to askbetter questions, to explore different opportunities.

So thank you.

I give you a hug, but you're fucking far away right now andit, and it's COVID and we probably shouldn't do that.

Roy Matz: [01:15:19]We're gonna, we're gonna link. We're going to link. It's going to happen.

Boomer Anderson: [01:15:28]Exactly. All right. Homeys, superhumans, everybody. Who's listening. If youwant to check out the show notes for this one, decoding superhuman.com/ 200Roy. Thank you for, for being a part of everything and, or shadow.